6l80 vs 10l80 transmissionarizona state employee raises 2022
2nazty New Member. *$3,245 does not include any Hard Part damage, Torque Converter or TCM/ECM tuning. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. if the car would be faster with the 6 speed auto vs the 10 speed auto. This transmission is out of a Tur. Structurally, the 8L90 is similar to the 8L45, except that it is made to handle more power and torque. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. While working on a 2017-2018 Ford F150/Raptor, 2018 Expedition, Mustang, and Lincoln Navigator equipped with a 10R80 transmission, you may experience erratic TCC operation, or a TCC shudder concern. All Rights Reserved. Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. Internally they are very different but at least with the 8l90 you do not need to completely disassemble the transmission to convert to 4wd from 2wd. This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. Why the thin woven carbon clutch doesnt typically fail in the 4L60-E TMBX. One needs to realize that the stamped covers are not all that flat to begin with. I also have a 2wd 2006 Trailblazer SS with a forged 416ci stroked LS3 which makes around 600 hp or so with a Yank SS3600 stall converter. Problem Owners may experience an ATF leak coming from under the vehicle. The ball bearing remained tight on the stator shaft support housing. Indirectly affects shift control. In any event, precise coordinate measuring (CMM scans) of a variety of JMBX covers shows that the covers are wavy and have undulations on the clutch surface, especially opposite of the welded cover pads. Click Get a Free Estimate for an unbeatable price on a replacement remanufactured transmission. 10L80 Transmission Specs General - 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter Application - RWD & 4WD / AWD RPO Code - MF6 Production Began - 2017 Case - 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Torque Converter - 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) Now he serves as a regular contributor to OnAllCylinders. Most full-size trucks and SUVs with a 6L80, 6L90 use a JMBX full-size (300mm) style converter. A second electric 10L80 pump maintains fluid pressure when the stop/start function activates. should check for clearance. The Chevrolet Performance 6L80E trans comes with a set of wiring harness adapters and a flash drive that is used to configure the transmission to be used behind a GM LS engine in a rear wheel drive application. Your email address will not be published. So if there are any possible ways to upgrade the RPM Level 6 4L70E in my 416 CI Trailblazer, the 4L80E in my Silverado with a LS2 with heavily worked and milled 243s, Ported and polished Fast LSXRT 102mm intake, and the Caprice PPV I am looking for the right one. TCRA Annual Seminar Coming to Charlotte this April! Related Articles Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission Solving, This article applies to Chrysler RFE, RLE and TES transmissions that utilize pressure control solenoids (PCS) for line pressure control. The overall First gear ratio is deeper at 2.97:1 which means the car builder can leave a taller rear gear ratio in the rear end and still have great First gear acceleration. The GM Hydramatic 6L80 transmission heralds a significant change in the design of automatic transmissions at General Motors. Given the complexity of the TCM control strategy, the engineers made every effort to allow for partial operation of the unit under most failure conditions. Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a, J Series Trucks & Wagons, (I6 What is your recomendation for towing? Your email address will not be published. Thats right, you can find a variation of this Ford GM 10-speed automatic transmission in the Ford Mustang GT and the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! Spin losses (i.e. In 2006, GM superceded Dexron III as the recommended fill with Dexron VI, which is backwards compatible with the earlier versions. I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. Upon a test drive and a scan, code P0741 is noted and the percentage of TCC slip shows to be way out of range. The 6L80 was used in trucks, particularly in the GMT 900 platform. Sticking valves and sticking CIDAS solenoids are becoming more common concerns with these units. In 1987, he assumed the role of editor for Hot Rod magazine before returning to his first love of writing technical stories. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A Stuck On. This took the dealership a much longer period of time in acquiring these bolts for Brian to complete the job. Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. It probably wont do much for the elapsed time which is all that really matters. Page 2 August, 2019 Bulletin No. These solenoids are directly proportional in that zero current equals zero pressure, and maximum current equals maximum pressure. Fluid pressure is maintained by an off-axis main pump that can vary the displacement depending on the load. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. 4L60E (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 4L60E / 4L65E (w/ removable bellhousing) All LS1 Type, 4L80E 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), 6L80E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), 6L90E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), Splines (output shaft)Pan Bolts (number of), Transmission Fluid Capacity (see also capacity of fluid in the converter here). Many who work in the dealerships have become privy to the immediate failures that occur in this unit. What all needs to be done to change it from four-wheel-drive to 2 Wheel Dr? Both 2wd and 4wd versions of the 6L80 can be used equally well, and there are no inherent advantages to either one once you have installed our adapter assembly. Thanks Jeff. Codes P0741 or P1744 may or may not set in the PCM or TCM (depending on application). In addition to developing innovative, quality repairs for transmissions, Sonnax is also the premier, full-line supplier of components to the torque converter remanufacturing industry. If we change to the latest GM 10-speed automatic it has a 4.70:1 First gear and is factory matched with a 2.85:1 rear gear. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a36 spline. Chevrolet Transmission Dimensions Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. And you are correct the converters in these units are experiencing a high percentage of failure and are more problematic than normal. Since these are straight cut gears, they will tend to be somewhat noisy. The small 10-speed gear steps allow the engine speed to drop to lower values than it would in the 6-speed transmission, providing for the best fuel economy. Thats more than almost any other GM automatic transmission. As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. When diagnosing this unit, it is very important to realize that the failure management programs built into the powertrain system may be a direct reflection of the customers drivability complaint. Thought's? However, at light pedal or road load, single-step upshifts will occur. vehicle weights. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that we're closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. $3,245*. In a similar vein, GM Gen. IV engines do not always take kindly to other transmissions such as manuals (essentially no longer available from GM), and most automatics that predate the 6L80. I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control System Our top-of-the-line controller for 6R80 transmissions. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. So you would need to begin with a 2008 or newer Express to be able to convert from a 4L80 to a 6L80 / 6L90. While Sonnax makes every effort to ensure the accuracy of technical articles at time of publication, we assume no liability for inaccuracies or for information which may become outdated or obsolete over time. You will need to ship your transmission to us for the rebuild. Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: First introduced in 2005, the 6L80 transmission is a 6-speed automatic gearbox that is made by General Motors at their Willow Run transmission factory in Ypsilanti Michigan, and at their transmission plant in Toledo, Ohio. LT). Intermittent Fail Safe, Codes, Related Concerns and Solutions, The ZF 8-Speed Transmission Fluid and Filter Change, Tackling Clutch Failure in the GM 6L80/90, Change is in the Air Installing Updated Calibrations. Cost and Process, Torque Converter Problems: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, Transmission Solenoid: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, 10 Pro Tips on Buying Used Transmissions For Sale, P0700: Transmission Control System Malfunction (TCM), Pontiac Firebird Transmission Problems & Cost | 4L60E / 4L65, Cadillac SRX Transmission Problems & Cost | 5L40E | 6L50 | 6T70, Ford Crown Victoria Transmission Problems & Cost | 4R75E / 4R75W / 4R70W, Chevy Equinox Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 / 6T45 / AW55-50SN, Saturn Aura Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 | 6T40 | 4T45E. The 10L80 moniker is decoded. JT. It was created to help GM meet ever more demanding CAFE regulations on their vehicles. At this point, the converter rebuilder is faced with either finding another core that he hopes will have good components or purchasing a Sonnax forged cover GM-CC-13 and forged piston GM-DA-17P. A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A - Apply Time Out Of Range code. The 6L80 transmission pan is similar in shape but the 6L80 is shorter at 17 1/2 inches. Use it to verify the vehicle has a M30 4L60ENow, if the transmission is out of the vehicle (or if you dont trust a sticker), the 6L80E has an 18 bolt case. Beginning in 2010, all 2500 and 3500 Express / Savana with a 4.8L or 6.0L engine used the 6L90 transmission. After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978, he combined his two passions: cars and writing. CDT 10L80 Bench Rebuild. The 10R80 doesn't have a traditional "front" pump. So why does the JMBX converter have this chronic problem? The 6L80 is doubtless a very successful OEM transmission, and a terrific conversion transmission in the right Jeeps and situations. It has a line pressure tap for diagnostic purposes. Efficiency and performance are the two main goals behind the GM 10L80 transmission. GM was still using their trustworthy 4L80E transmissions for heavier duty use, which was essentially a 1960's technologyTH400with added 1990's overdrive and electronic controls. These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. This pan fits the GM 6L90, 6L90E transmission, typically found on these vehicles: . Will this hurt the trani? Wait 1 second. 97 it's a, I have a 2007 h3 hummer base model. Both covers have very similar profiles and thicknesses, and you would not expect that one would be any more prone to flex or distortion than the other. all that is needed is a Throttle position signal and Engine RPM. A horsepower revolution spawned by GM's increasingly powerful Gen. III+ V8 engines and their aggressive platforms such as the Cadillac STSV, XLRV, various trucks and SUV's and the venerable Corvette. Commanded engine torque: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. The 6L80 began manufacture in 2005 for release in 2006 model year GM vehicles, persisting until at least 2016 in both 6L80 and 6L90 versions. The stator shaft support housing comes with these gears as one assembly. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? The source of the contamination, however, is not readily apparent. The check engine light might be on, and the customer complains of a slipping sensation with intermittent clunks. Eighth 0.85 Pre-Owned. During the inspection of the transmission, Brain noticed that the idler gear could be easily lifted off of the bearing with just the use of his fingers (see figures 2 and 3). - Scope testing the Ford 10R80. With its 2017-2018 heralding, Ford has equipped 3 domestic models with the 10R80 transmission. The complaint A Ford vehicle equipped with the FNR5 transmission has a complaint of a severe slipping condition in reverse. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. Brian at Tommy Boys Performance, however, has the opportunity to work with a local dealership assisting them when their workload gets heavy. The new 2019 Camaro gets the a10 but, Its not the a10 (10L90) from the ZL1. This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH200-4R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. August 8, 2022. Tested: 2023 BMW M4 CSL Is a Track Monster. Why is that? Always appreciate the great exchanges. Read more columns from our Shift Pointers series here. For instance, transmission techs with any time under their belts can tell you all about 3-4 clutch failure in GM 4L60-Es, intermediate stub shaft failure in Ford 4R70Ws and solenoid issues in Aisin AW 55-50s. It features dynamic veins and a rotating wheel driven by a steel gear with it's own filter. Just keep scanning it until you find the one you are looking for. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. I & II Note, all models will have a warmer. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete. Genuine ICT Billet - Bolts Made in USA!!!! $ 439.00 Select options. Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. The 8L90E is an 8 speed automatic transmission developed by General Motors and introduced for the 2015 Model year. Swapping to this transmission is currently difficult from an electronic control standpoint. Larry Callahan Founder/Administrator of Pro-Touring.com, G-Machines.com and HostMyJunk.com To advertise on Pro-Touring.com click here The idler gear is what drives the pumps driven gear. As with earlier Hydramatics, the 6L80 will accept either the 258mm or 300mm torque converters. The replacement solenoid band number must match the band number of the solenoid being replaced. But before you have a brand induced meltdown, lets look at all the things that make the 10L80 transmission so unique. This idler gear and ball bearing assembly is mounted to the stator shaft support housing. The General Motors Hydra-Matic 10-speed 10L80 automatic transmissions is a heavy duty (high performance) variant of the Hydra-Matic 10LXX transmission family. But its interesting to note that there is a very low cover/piston failure rate for the 4L60-E TMBX converter. Its extremely important to scan all modules for codes and address those codes first! While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules. lost energy) are reduced by only having two of the six clutches open at any time. Developed with upgraded internal components, Chevrolet Performance's SuperMatic 6L80-E 6-speed automatic transmission offers an exceptional torque rating of 650 lb.-ft. - a 45 percent increase over regular production versions of the 6-speed automatic. or Best Offer . The 10L90 and 10L80 10 Speed Automatic Transmissions are on exchange through GM PQC as part of our ongoing quality improvement efforts to assist Engineering with product concern identification effective on 02/13/16. Become a 6L80-E and 6L90-E expert now! The readers on this site are a pretty sharp bunch. Did they release much info about it on the trucks? Your cooperation with this program is greatly appreciated. Jeff Smith: The TCI six-speed automatic is indeed a revamped or upgraded 4L80E. So whats the most common failure thats seen time and again with these? It features a dry weight of ~195 lbs. Made of billet aluminum with included swivel -6 AN fittings with 3/8" barbs. When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). The dipstick has three different fill marks, A, B and C. These fill marks are model dependent and should be verified with factory information when the fluid level is checked (Figure 11). 8L80E This is a normal and desired behavior. The 6L90 transmission is slightly longer and taller than a comparable configuration 6L80 due to its beefier internals. The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. The overall First gear ratio is 2.48 x 4.10 = 10.17:1. Related Articles Dana offers Spicer end yokes for Allison Transmissions ATI introduces six-speed Chevy transmission performance package Georend Transmission adds Ford 6R140 transmission pan kit. Power Pack Only, for Power Hub | 195756-7754. Online Buyer's Guide Maximum engine input torque for the 6L80 is 440 ft. lbs. Convert your american classic car with more modern technology. As the transmission approaches normal operating temperature, reverse movement is non-existent. Indirectly affects shift pressure control. Interestingly enough, it was not long after this that Brian received another 10L80 with the same issue to resolve. Im not tuned ( not yet anyway), however, if I knew then what I know today, I probably would have went for the M6. Required fields are marked *. The gearing spread is a very capable 6.04, with ratios in each gear as follows: First: 4.02, Second: 2.36, Third: 1.53, Fourth: 1.15, Fifth: .085, Sixth: 0.67, Reverse: 3.06. Inspect the warmer for damage and related lines for leaks (Figure 4). Then, of course, Sixth gear is still 0.75:1 overdrive. The 6L80 / 6L90 uses three-way solenoids and variable bleed solenoids for improved shift quality. Fourth 1.80 Remember, this is just a theory. this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". Indirectly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. The 6L50, 6L80, 6L90, 8L45, 8L90, 10L60, 10L80, & 10L90 transmissions from MY2015 to current are filled through a port in the bottom of the oil pan. By the time a converter rebuilder opens up a JMBX, the damage is done, and it can be hard to see what happened first. They can then use these unseen components throughout their different product lines and improve their profit margins through the lower shared development costs. For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable. When its enabled at low speeds the exhaust tone becomes muffled, the AFM valves clatter open and closed, v4 vibration and increased injector noise is nothing but annoying, especially with a convertible. But keeping the engine in its ideal RPM range allows the 10L80 transmission to operate with nearly the efficiency of a CVT transmission. If there are worn valves or faulty inputs or controls, its easy to see how the clutch could start to shudder and quickly fail. 2) Trans vertical position is the same on 200-4R,700R4,4L60,4L65,70E,6L80E. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. Shift stabilization is achieved through these and similar strategies. Aisin AY6 6-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. I'd be modding it to a FBO car with cam and converter eventually. It is currently phasing out the 6L80/6L90 transmissions (although it hasn't done its all the way yet. If you are tearing down a new job and cant find any hard part failure that would result in the amount of metal you have in the pan, its just about certain that the inside of the torque converter looks like the disaster area shown in Figure 1.
